Celebrating John Surman….
Composer and multi-instrumentalist John Surman is a key figure in a generation of European musicians who crucially expanded the international horizons of jazz during the last decades of the twentieth century. Long acknowledged for the exquisite lyricism and richly textured sound of his music — and intense, full-bodied improvisation — he is a stalwart of the ECM record label, and the recipient of many accolades, including the golden key from Novara Jazz and the prestigious Ivor Novello Jazz Award.
Martel Ollerenshaw’s professional relationship with John Surman dates back to 2002 (when she worked for Serious International Music Producers), and she was thrilled when he wanted to continue to work with her when she started Arts & Parts.
In 2024 John will turn 80 (30 August) and the celebration starts with the release of his latest album Words Unspoken on ECM (released on 16 February) and continues with live dates of this band throughout the year.
Arts & Parts communications mastermind, Daniela Gerstmann, interviewed John and his collaborators in anticipation of this significant year.
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DG: This is your 80th trip around the sun and you are going to release an album soon. How does it feel to plan an album that takes you into your 9th decade?
JS: Oddly enough I don’t think it felt any different than it did when I was preparing to make my first album back in the 1960s. The same kind of decisions about selecting and composing material apply I suppose. For me it has always been about finding musical areas that I hope will really work for the musicians involved. For some projects it involves preparing quite a lot of written material and in other cases a few simple guidelines are enough.
DG: Words Unspoken follows on from your 2018 trio album Invisible Threads (ECM). What are the musical and conceptual connections?
JS: Invisible Threads was very much based on my musical relationship with pianist Nelson Ayres. His unique style, which blends a classical jazz background with his Brazilian roots, was absolutely central to the project.
However, working in trio with Rob Waring on vibes we were looking to develop a very open improvisational atmosphere, which I think is carried forward into Words Unspoken.
DG: On this album, you’re working with a quartet: guitarist Rob Luft, Rob Waring vibraphonist and drummer Thomas Strønen. How did you decide on this line-up?
JS: I have always enjoyed playing with guitarists and listening to Rob Luft during a concert in Oslo made we think that it might be a good idea if we got together and played sometime. I had played once with Thomas Strønen on a project some years ago and enjoyed his approach to the music. Having already developed a firm musical friendship with Rob Waring I realised that we might work well together as a quartet and started to hear some ideas in my head that sounded interesting.
DG: You’ve got a range of different ages and generations in your band. How does this influence the way you play together? And what would you say is important for an intergenerational band?
JS: As they say, ‘age only matters to cheese and wine’. I can honestly say that I haven’t given the age difference much thought - at least as far as the music-making is concerned. Although I have noticed that they all seem to be able to climb up flights of stairs faster than I can these days.
DG: You have worked with the younger generations of musicians in [talent development programme] Take Five. What stood out to you about their ambitions and concerns, compared to yours when you started your career?
JS: I think that the principal difference between starting out to play jazz in the 1960s and the 2000s was that, back in the 60s in Europe, the idea of actually becoming a professional jazz musician was pretty much a crazy ambition. Of course, this has changed over the years and now the approach has become much more professional, involving college degree courses, agents and management issues. But either way, getting on with a career has been a tough business both then and now and perhaps the ambitions and concerns remain basically the same.
DG: What is something you learned from the younger players in the band?
JS: How to use my mobile phone properly - amongst other vital internet issues.
DG: Now that you have been on tour together, who is actually the most grown-up and who is the most childish band member?
JS: I’m pleased to say that I think we all have a pretty good sense of humour - and what sensible grown-up person would subject themselves to a life of ‘jazz-on-the road’?
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Insights from the collaborators…
Thomas Strønen (drums): ‘In art and music, age has no specific role. It’s about what you bring to the table that matters. I’ve been the youngest in many bands and sometimes the oldest. As long as the people I work with give me energy, it doesn’t matter where they’re from, their cultural background their beliefs nor age. We’re all a bunch of kids playing around while taking the music dead serious.’
Rob Waring (vibraphone): ‘I have played in a number of intergenerational bands over the years. I have experienced what it’s like being the youngest member and also being the oldest member. In Words Unspoken I’m in between - 37 years older than the youngest member and 12 years younger than the oldest…In many situations, such age differences might lead to contrasting attitudes, frames of reference and perceptions about the world. In creative music-making, however, musicians engage with each other on a different plane, where those types of differences are irrelevant….Most of the great, original, genuinely creative musicians I have known are people that have maintained a childlike playfulness, curiosity, and openness all of their lives. They aren’t childish, in the sense of being immature, but rather childlike in their ability to play, have fun and be spontaneous. With that in mind, I’d say that in our band we’ve all managed to avoid becoming grown-ups!’
Rob Luft (guitar): ‘Like many jazz musicians of old, I spent much of my teenage years and my twenties playing in bands led by older musicians. The dynamic created by this kind of musical relationship is integral to the aural tradition of jazz and it feels very much like a musical “passing of the baton”. I guess it allows for younger jazz musicians such as myself to learn from the elder statesmen of this music simply via playing together on the bandstand. This is very much at the heart of John’s latest quartet which carries the apposite name “Words Unspoken”!...I have learned, I continue to learn, and I will go on learning from my musical elders! Playing with John is a lesson in zen-like quiet power as he intuitively knows when to step into the music with great intensity and when to lay out, in order to let the vibraphone, the drums or the guitar take a more central role. It’s simultaneously very inspiring for me as well as ever so slightly daunting playing with these guys as I’ve spent much of my youth listening to and learning from various projects they’ve been in over the years...I guess the very notion of playing music involves that word “playing”, so there’s always the need for the inner child to emerge when we make music. This is especially true of heavily improvised jazz like the Words Unspoken quartet, where a sense of childlike curiosity is often at the forefront of our musical decision making. So, finally, I think that to be a great improviser, a balance must be struck between childish naivety and artistic maturity.’
February 2024